Interview & Words By Jake Paine

It has been now 24 years of Above The Law and Big Hutch injecting melody into Hip-Hop. The producer/MC who is also prominently known as Cold187um is a G-Funk pioneer of combining altered the grooves of the ‘70s and early ‘80s and created drive-friendly Hip-Hop with the juxtaposition of hard lyrics overtop.

A native of Pomona, California Hutch, DJ Total K-Oss and the late KMG made two hands full of albums with Above The Law, featuring input and contributions from the likes of Eazy-E, 2Pac, Dr. Dre, and longtime affiliate Kokane. Along the way, the group quietly led lives that removed all skepticism that their accounts on wax were fabricated or staged. Hutch, who remained close with Death Row Records during the N.W.A. split was fiercely loyal to his mentor Eazy. A prominent figure in the studios at Ruthless, Hutch was later called upon by Suge Knight to reignite the sounds at Death Row.

In the years since his deep involvement in the independent label renaissance, Hutch has focused on his own West World imprint. This week, Hutch released his sixth solo album, The Big Hit, a sneak attack on the industry, and a retail gift to his longtime fans. Speaking with Crazy Hood, the O.G. expounds on some powerful lines and production from the LP, recalls guiding a multi-platinum 2Pac album, and speaks on the status of G-Funk and Gangsta Rap.

Crazy Hood: The Big Hit isn’t like a throwback album, where you’re out trying to reinvent something. But at the same time, it’s got that knock that your music was known for throughout the ‘90s. How much did you go back and listen to your old work to make this?

Big Hutch: Oh yeah, definitely. The whole thing that I tried to capture was the resurrection, the reincarnation of G-Funk. I definitely had to [listen to my catalog]. In the process of me doing that, I was payin’ homage to the things people loved me doing in the past, and we done collectively as [Above The Law], I had to do that on The Big Hit.

The great thing, I think, that I kind of experienced in going back and listening to a lot of the old stuff, is that you have a lot of appreciation for the things that you’ve done, accomplished at [that] time. You’ve got to realize: there wasn’t really this big industry that people think was always here. So for us to accomplish, on an underground level, the success that we had, it was an appreciation. I had to go back and kind of vibe with it, catch a flavor, and go to the next level. That’s what The Big Hit movement of doin’ a new record is about: to re-spark, as a producer, a sound that’s been irrelevant for a lot of years, but that people have overlooked, but that changed the course of music. I had to go back to catch that vibe and bring it into the modern day.

Crazy Hood: You’re a musical dude. You play instruments and obviously come from a great lineage within your family in music. The crazy thing about this album, is the drums…

Big Hutch: [Laughing] Like you the said, the instrumentation is always going to be there ‘cause I’m from a musical family; that’s my heritage. But one thing that I wanted to capture in this was to go back to the big beat, boom-clap-snap sounds. I definitely tried to focus on that with it. I didn’t try to—like you said earlier, reinvent the wheel—I just tried to use the blueprints of something, but put the update on it. Remember how when we were young and comin’ up, the Rolls Royce was for your granddaddy? Now, somebody at 25 wants to it. So I try to put the O.G. on it: the classiness of the Rolls Royce, but with the paint that somebody young is gonna understand.

Crazy Hood: I don’t want to say too much and snitch on samples, but when people hear it, they’re gonna like “Cassandra Deniro.” That track has elements of the late ‘60s Memphis sound, and the early ‘90s New York flavor. Tell me about what you did there…

Big Hutch: When I started doin’ the fusion of the new era of what I wanted to do with the G-Funk thing, I thought about what if I take a classic sample, re-play it, and compose an orchestra around it, and do it. That’s how “Cassandra Deniro” came about. The thing that you might think is a sample is actually me re-playing it. I composed the whole thing around it—that whole record, like you said, without giving it up. [Laughs]

When it was me, Above The Law, and all the architects of G-Funk…being a producer of it, the thing that I think was great about it—and I always tell Kokane this, and DJ [Total] K-Oss, and Go Mack, and me and [KMG] talked about it: I thank them for lettin’ me experiment with the things, musically, that other rappers wouldn’t have wanted to experiment with. So I kinda gunned that on “Cassandra Deniro.” We would do shit like Country music and Funk, and then make “Deep Az The Roots.” That was my thing. So what if I take this classic sample, that [was used on] a hardcore Hip-Hop record, and just compose it like an orchestra was around it? That’s the type of theory that we would have done in Above The Law.

Crazy Hood: How long does something like that take you?

Big Hutch: Oh my God…actually, it takes me…probably about four hours to compose a whole record like that, musically. What I do is, I play everything. I hear it and I play it all out; I don’t just [sample]. Then I’ll edit it, to sweeten it in the percussion. All the percussion, all the accents are played by me. [Chuckles] It’s really detailed type of composition; I still believe in the organic process.

Crazy Hood: You mention G-Funk, which you are a forefather and pioneer of. Over the years, artists like Da’Brat and Kris Kross used G-Funk production without the music necessarily having that “G.” How do you feel about that, all things considered? Because it seems to be happening again…

Big Hutch: Much props to [Da’Brat and Kris Kross mentor and producer] Jermaine Dupri; he’s a great producer. I’m honored to have influenced them so well. I think people take the style of something, as far as musical texture, as the canvas. Like what you’re saying: what they’re taking, as far as G-Funk, is the canvas. The actual frame and the picture is not the gangsta part of it. It’s just more lyrical wordplay, basically, on top of G-Funk undertones. It’s okay, because we all influence each other. I was influenced by Blues and Rock & Roll and all these things, so it’d be really strange if I was to say, “that’s fucked up that you were influenced by me;” I want to influence people. That’s paying homage to somebody.

Back then, there was kind of a respect for it. Right now, there’s no respect for a guy like me who basically created it. There’s more of a respect for the popular guy who’s done it. [Laughs] I’m not sayin’, “Bow down and kiss my Chuck’s.” [Laughs] I’m just sayin’ that’s probably the downside. Really, [Da’Brat’s] Funkdafied was the actual elements of G-Funk. It’s the melodies, the singing—that makes it G-Funk, without that lyrical content. Now, people try to talk Ratchet stuff over a G-Funk beat, with no melody. G-Funk has got to have some melody: some goonie-goons. It’s gotta have some goonie-goons in there! No matter what. Every Above The Law record has some melody, some singin’ in it, some classic overtones to it.

Crazy Hood: Along those same lines, on The Big Hit, you’ve got “Diaries Of A Drug Dealer.” Anybody who knows you or does their research knows how a song like that might relate to your life. You’ve served time to prove it, and suffered from your reality. That being said, in the modern era, how do you feel about the status of Gangsta Rap, today?

Big Hutch: Some of the guys, I feel really solid about, but, it’s very few. One thing about it, in the era [Above The Law] came from, the media labeled it “Gangsta Rap,” which is fine. I think a lot of the things that are supposed to be Gangsta Rap aren’t really totally straight-to-your-face reality of what’s going on. Take a person like [Ice] Cube. Cube was always able—from the beginning when he was with N.W.A. up ‘til he started doing his solo projects and beyond—he was always able to give you the current events and the climate of what’s going on. Just like Above The Law, or 2Pac, or Eazy-E, or Ice-T, Schoolly D—all these cats in the era that they came up in. They were street reporters, basically. I think now, the harder music is just about the moment. It’s not about the life of the particular rapper.

Above The Law had party records, love records, political records, and gangsta records. It was a bit of all of it. So I’m not knocking the guys who say they do hardcore Hip-Hop—hard rappers who then do love songs. I don’t really consider comparing that to what we did being relevant of what’s going on right now. If you don’t have those records about [the streets], those are ghetto, gangsta topics. All the other stuff sounds cool, but when you compare it to what we did? Ours was more rhymin’ for reason. The whole thing wasn’t about the moment. That’s what I think that defers from what we did.

I want you to understand this, Jake: I’m not the type of brother that’s caught up on old or new. I’m really caught up on dope or wack. [Laughs] We did have a code in this, as far as: this was biting, this was fake, this was real. A lot of that shit got thrown in the [trash] if any of it was [fake or biting]. It wasn’t just put on because it had all these Facebook likes and all these tweets; I’m just keeping it real; I don’t have a problem with none of it. I like a lot of new artists: YG, Kendrick Lamar, ScHoolboy Q, Nipsey Hussle—I love ‘em. I love a lot of new dudes; I can’t tolerate fake shit though, man. I can’t tolerate people callin’ themselves a gangster when they never lived that life. Like you just brought up, I do got a number on my back. I served time for sellin’ drugs. I’m not no fake person: I didn’t beat my girl up, I wasn’t shootin’ dope, I wasn’t poppin’ pills and drove into a whole family of people,…I done somethin’ that I thought I was true to and thought I had friends in, and hey, I did my time. So when I wrote a record like “Diaries Of A Drug Dealer,” those were fears of a drug dealer, basically. It’s not what you think it’s cracked up to be. You’ve got a lot of people who hate you, you’ve got a lot of people who love you, but only love you ‘cause you givin’ ‘em somethin’. You’ve got a lot of people takin’ a risk, but when you’re in that cell, by yourself, you gotta deal with that. Honestly, homie, when the Feds was takin’ pictures of me, I got indicted. So I don’t know about all that other stuff that these talkin’ about, to keep it honest with you. I don’t even know why they speak like that. [Chuckles] “I’m ballin’, I’m makin’ it rain, I’m sellin’ a bunch of dope.” I don’t know why you’re talkin’ like that. ‘Cause when I was doin’ it, if I was to say what I was doing, on record, I would have got thrown under the jail. [Laughs] I’m just bein’ real; I’m not the toughest tool in the toolbox, dog. But on the real, I’ve don mine. So when people call on me, “you ain’t this, you ain’t that,” check my pedigree. I’m an O.G. because I’ve done all these things—not just ‘cause I’m an old dude that just was fakin’ all my life. Eighty-percent of those things I did with force, a little bit of fear, and whole bunch of faith, homie. [Laughs] So I’ma keep it 100 with everybody.

Crazy Hood: Moving back into music for a second, The Big Hit is on your West World imprint. I remember buying Executive Decisions, which was the first release on your label. You worked with Saafir on that album, which was a bit out of the circle of artists people regularly associated you with. Tell me about the chemistry…

Big Hutch: “Players, Gangstas & Ballers.” When we was touring, I’d always see Saafir. Me and him would talk a whole bunch, just talk some shop. “Man, you so real, we gotta do a record together.” It was just like that, just conversation. He was the first cat who enlightened me on [not receiving love on the East Coast]. This was at a time when it was like the elephant in the room. He would talk to me [when I was] at Death Row [Records]. That’s how it went down. I’m old school to the point to where, in my life and in my house, the people who raised me…the brilliance of them was that they always taught me to make the records about what’s going on right now. [Chuckles] When it comes to others, you feel their spirit and their vibe, and you want to make records with them. Much props to Saafir, an incredible artist who’s true to what he do.

Crazy Hood: You recently did some shows with 2^nd II None and Kokane. How does rocking the stage put you back in the pocket when it comes time to making new music?

Big Hutch: For me, that’s the [essence]: to give back and see the reaction. That’s the magic of everything. To be able to still have that energy I had when I was hella young, it always makes me feel like I’m 25 again. It’s incredible, man! Not to give up too much, but I have a surprise for all of my people who are down with me and followed me all these years. I have this new thing I’m launching, so stay tuned to that, far as live performances. It’s gonna be crazy, next level.

Crazy Hood: My favorite of the 2Pac releases after 1996 was Until The End Of Time. The title single is so moving, but that double-album came together nicely. You worked extensively on that, producing four tracks as well as being the head of music at the time, at Death Row. Beyond the stuff you produced, can you explain your role in that album?

Big Hutch: I was the Music Supervisor for that record. I’m the reason why the record even came out, put together. I mixed 80% of the album, basically. I overseen the whole thing. For me, what I tried to do on that record, beyond what EDI and [Afeni Shakur], the executives at Death Row, put on, they wanted want me to capture the record as if ‘Pac was still livin’. That’s what I tried to focus on. For me, I’m glad that people were excited when I did it, ‘cause that was my whole objective, as music supervisor, to make sure the records that were done or touched was like if ‘Pac was actually livin’. For me, it’s one of the greatest projects that I ever worked on, as far as me being able to look out for someone that I really had love for, after they were gone. I was so blessed for it to be put in my hands and have an opportunity to do that; in my career that’s like a milestone for me. The Until The End Of Time record was really a phenomenal time for me.

Crazy Hood: Obviously the single had a major crossover appeal, as it was built very similarly to “Changes.” But through the rest of the album, people like yourself, Ant Banks, LT Hutton were brought in, people ‘Pac did and would have worked with, instead of just whoever was hot at the time—which subsequent posthumous ‘Pac albums did…

Big Hutch: Right, and that wasn’t ‘Pac. What I tried to do was keep that—that whole essence of those guys that you talked about, and keep it all in the fold. I didn’t want to go off that mark too much. I think now, when you look at the [2Pac releases] that happened after Until The End Time, that’s exactly what they’ve done. “Oh, what if ‘Pac was doin’ this?” In reality, ‘Pac would have done fun records, over the top records. Whatever cats are doing now, he would have done it, he just would have done it in his way. You have to keep people in the mind-frame of what we would have done in doing that. We all grow, no matter what. If you’re gonna do ‘Pac records, you need to go to people who designed the ‘Pac [archetype]. Who was around in that era, and see where their mind-frame is at in the modern era. We’re all in the same mind-frame. You’re talking about guys who worked with the cat, not fans of him. [These are] people who were involved in the essence of [2Pac]. I don’t understand why companies don’t do that. Me, Ant Banks, LT [Hutton], QDIII, all of us are still livin’, and rest in peace to Johnny J. If all of us are still livin’ and involved with the project, come get us! Guess what we’re gonna protect? The integrity of the music.

Crazy Hood: Along those lines, when you were Music Supervisor at Death Row, the label didn’t do a lot besides 2Pac projects and some compilations. The organic projects at the label were never released. What projects did you really believe in while you were there?

Big Hutch: Well, I wish the first [edition] of the Crooked I album would have came out. I wish the Lisa Left-Eye [Lopes] record [as N.I.N.A.] would have came out. Just because for the level of talent that I think they both had. I just think it would have been a phenomenal ride. Then you have the Spider Loc record, before the G-Unit [deal]. It’s a lot of great artists that were there—of course the Above The Law record. I wish that would have came out. That’s pretty much the list that I can say would have taken that label to next level.

Crazy Hood: The new ownership at Death Row has put out shelved albums by Danny Boy, Sam Sneed and others. Do you think the Above The Law album will ever be released?

Big Hutch: No, no, no. Not without my blessing, it won’t. [There are] only about four songs [recorded]. “Cheese,” “Everywhere We Go,” and two more joints. I wouldn’t even sign off on that.

It’s crazy, because the reason why we left…I went over there as [Vice President]. In my contract, it was to help run the label and put out an Above The Law record. When I couldn’t get that…there was a clause in my contract when I requested to do it…you only have like 60 days to have me in the studio, and Death Row didn’t honor the clause in the contract, so it breached. It’s crazy. We never really did nothin’. We were just developing a few things. But I worked so much on helping develop artists at that label; I really didn’t have any time any time to get in. Suge had a meeting, “Above The Law will continue to develop and whoop, whoop, whoop.” We knew then, we just had to call our attorneys. We were probably six or seven months into the agreement and had never really been to the studio but maybe once or twice. This was not us, and not our rhythm. Our rhythm is, we stay in the studio.

Crazy Hood: You were only on Death Row a short time, and Ruthless Records for quite a while. You still, to this day, represent for both, including on The Big Hit…

Big Hutch: Right. Plus, what we were involved with, from my point of view, we were part of making Ruthless what it became. We were part of the infrastructure in the building of Death Row, as far as with G-Funk. We were first going to collectively help [Suge Knight and Dr. Dre] launch Death Row, until the drama got [tense] between Eazy and Dre, and Suge and all that. That’s why I feel so [connected]. Snoop [Dogg] and Warren [G] came through our camp, then they went to Death Row. At the end of it all, I was trying to help that label turn itself around. For us, we were all one clique in the beginning; I always felt attached to Death Row. Of course it’s Ruthless for life, but I always felt attached to Death Row because I always kept a great relationship with [Dr.] Dre for a period of time, until The Chronic came out and he bit Black Mafia Life, basically, and ripped some ideas off that record. Much respect to him, because he put me in the game, along with Laylaw and Eazy-E. When it came to that, and him not giving me any respect…a lot of people don’t understand what our relationship became. I’m still cool with Snoop; me and Warren are very tight. Those type of things were always very consistent through that period. I’m always attached to them, no matter what. It all came up through us. That’s why I pay that homage: all the people good, bad, or indifferent, who have helped me along the way.

Crazy Hood: You mention Black Mafia Life. You can walk into any record and CD store today with half a damn of inventory, and all of Above The Law’s first seven albums are always in stock—except Uncle Sam’s Curse. Do you know why that is?

Big Hutch: [Laughs] It’s funny, because I had a meeting about the very same thing you’re talking about. Uncle Sam’s Curse had a cease-and-desist on it for a period of time because of the Bridgeport [Music Publishing] agreement with George Clinton. They pulled it off the shelves. From my understanding from Ruthless, what they’re saying, the records got sent back to them. And Tomica [Woods-Wright] doesn’t want to re-release it. That’s tragic. It’s crazy, one of the most historical records that we ever made, and that’s why you can find on eBay for $250.

Crazy Hood: Between Ruthless and Death Row, Above The Law did two albums on Tommy Boy Records. Nobody ever talks about that. Tom Silverman is very different from an Eazy-E or A Suge Knight, but it’s arguably a label up with there with Def Jam or any other label. They obviously had Coolio, plus The Whoridas, but what was it like for three dudes from Pomona to be on that label?

Big Hutch: Aw man, you know I gotta say, I got paid a lot of money, man! [Laughs] It was a very, very corporate experience. We came to Tommy Boy when they were already formulated. A lot of groups before us—when [Queen] Latifah, Naughty [By Nature] and all them came to it, they came at a time when the label was formulating. I don’t say that in a bad way. Tommy Boy was a great label; I love Tom Silverman, good lookin’ out. He was the only real mothafucka lookin’ out there lookin’ out and willing to help us go to the next level. Where they messed up was the presentation. They tried to take us to mainstream radio, which was an accident. It was a train-wreck.

We put out [Time Will Reveal], and their approach wasn’t like Ruthless Records or an underground record company. They approached radio. We should have been building our core up, like we usually did, and putting the records out that we wanted, as far as singles were concerned. Our first single off that record wasn’t supposed to be “100 Spokes,” it was supposed to be “Evil That Men Do.” They didn’t want to do it ‘cause they didn’t think they could break radio with it. You trying to break radio with Above The Law? It’s impossible. You won’t. [Chuckles] Those type of things were really hard for us. We made the record we wanted to make; we’re Above The Law [like] we give a shit? Fuck it. [Laughs] We went back and forth so much in the boardroom about things; I didn’t like it. When I was with Eazy, I was used to doing business with the CEO of the label. I wasn’t used to doing business with 10 staff members, and have to listen to these mothafuckas. I gotta talk to you on Monday, her on Wednesday, and on Friday we all get together to talk about the same shit that we talked about individually. What the fuck is this?

We just came off of Uncle Sam’s Curse; we just popped everybody in the head. We were used to poppin’, and this shit was slow. It was great for us, as far as financially, but that corporate [life], I’m not cut for all these [meetings]. I’m not used to that.

Crazy Hood: You say a lot in this song “Wake The Dead.” Where’s it come from?

Big Hutch: [Laughs] “Wake The Dead,” that’s really my favorite record on [The Big Hit]. I like a lot of records, but that’s my favorite. I say what I say on there…everybody [gravitates towards] the first line: “I sold records like Kendrick Lamar / I socked Ice Cube dead in the jaw / I’m still tryna get that monkey off my back / So many fiends in the Rap game, I should’ve kept sellin’ crack.” Well, what I’m talkin’ about is…I don’t have no regrets for what I did. When I was young, I was very popular, as the most popular rapper on the West Coast is now. Still, I knocked out the most popular on the West Coast. After all these years, it seems that I’m still trying to get that off my back.

My point in “Wake The Dead” is, you’ve got to be real with who you are. Basically. All through your whole life. If it’s a mistake you made, if it’s you being a hard worker, you being a square, you’ve got to be real with who you are. All these people that’s doing shit now that’s caught up are asleep as fuck! That’s my take on it. I’m only [giving you] my point of view. I’m here trying to restore [music] for people who want that sound again, who want that voice again. “He’s saying what the fuck he feels,” even if it pisses you off. He’s not saying what’s politically correct and what I might want to hear. I’m not gonna sugar-coat it for nobody ever again; I’m gonna make records like The Big Hit for [the rest of] my career. When I came home from the pen and tried to be nice to people, people still treated me bad.

No man can go around and put up with all the buffoonery that’s goin’ on: people wearing dresses on Tuesday, on Thursday wearing some tight pants, and then on Friday, sayin’ they a thug. Nobody can put up with that! Are the real people dead? Let me wake the real mothafuckas up! Let me wake up 2Pac, let me wake up KMG, let me wake up Eazy-E. That’s what “Wake The Dead” is about! The real mothafuckas that’s sayin’ some shit. I’m still here. I know they wouldn’t put up with that.

Kendrick Lamar did “Control,” [and they say], “That’s Hip-Hop!” Yeah, it is! But on another note, check this out. There’s a lot of shit goin’ on: a lot of these young MCs are allowing people to wear skirts. I don’t wanna see no rapper in drag. I have no problem with homosexuals; none whatsoever. But if you’re not a girl, I don’t want to see you in a dress. Girls wear dresses. You’re a rapper in drag. But other MCs put up with this. It’s “Rapper Wear A Dress Day.” [Or] when you’re poppin’ pills and eatin’ pussy on a record, and that’s your whole infrastructure, I don’t know what to tell you. I didn’t grow up bein’ a dope-head or a junkie; they were outcasts in the hood where I’m from. People that had drug problems, had problems. They stole the VCR and . Junkies gon’ do somethin’ to ya. All that stuff ain’t Hip-Hop to me.

I guess I have to wake the dead. I guess I’m just out here by myself. [Laughs]

Crazy Hood: I deliberately did not want to ask you about KMG. You’ve said all that needs to be said on the subject when he died. But I want to end like this: what is your favorite KMG verse?

Big Hutch: [My favorite] line would have to be [“Livin’ Like Hustlers,” where he said]: “Eatin’ chicken like a mothafucka, rollin’ my Caddy.” That’s a line. Verse? Let me see…there’s a lot of verses, oh my God. The verse that I really love, that he did, is “The Untouchable” verse. [mumbles the lines] Yeah, that’s a dope verse! [Chuckles]

That’s my guy, man. Every day I think about him, man. It’s crazy. Making music beyond [his life] and not being able to do the whole [Above The Law group] ever again is really, really hard. But so is life, man…

Crazy Hood: I didn’t know him well. But I can say with certainty, he’d be mighty proud of you and The Big Hit…

Big Hutch: That’s right. Okay! Well, that’s what’s up. I appreciate you, man, 100%. [Laughs]

Jake Paine has been a music industry professional since 2002. In addition to five years as HipHopDX.com’s Editor-in-Chief, Paine spent five years as AllHipHop’s Features Editor. He has written for Forbes, XXL, The Source, Mass Appeal, among others. He currently resides in his hometown of Pittsburgh.